This blog started in one direction and has taken a different tact for now. I am a Torah observant Jew. I believe that there is a G-d, that He communicated a set of rules to the world, and that those rules constitute morality. I am interested in hearing how others come to their world view, though I am convinced that mine is correct. (I hope/assume that others believe that theirs is correct as well. A belief isn’t worth much if you don’t believe that it is a true belief. And, no, we can’t all be right because way too many of us have mutually exclusive beliefs. To quote Mark Knopfler, “Two men say they’re Jesus; one of them must be wrong.”

What follows from this is that I believe that incest and bestiality are immoral.

Back to SSA. I don’t believe that the term “cured” is helpful. The analogy that I like is that even after marriage, I am still attracted to women (I am a man) with whom I do not want to connect to sexually. It is not a matter or curing or suppressing. It is a matter of what I call “deconstructing.” I plan on making that my next blog piece. Stay tuned for my explanation there. I really appreciate your tone and honesty. Thanks.

I would say it’s more that, in the vast majority of the world, sex with your mother is a taboo issue (as in, ‘Having sex with your mother is disgusting’). That’s not the same as saying that something is morally wrong.

A horse may be compliant, but since horses aren’t intelligent enough to consent to sex (and even if they were, can’t communicate it to us), I’d deem it immoral.

As for the difficulty of the struggle, please understand. My starting point for this discussion is that G-d says, “No.” From that point, I can only seek to understand how He can say something that seems counterintuitive. I am very open to explaining/discussing how I get to that starting point, but I start here from it’s wrong. Now, let’s talking about which therapies do/don’t work. Are there success stories? Are there some paradigm shifts that we need as individuals and society in order to get there? I say yes.

How are you measuring ’success’ in this case? Even if ou go to the website of one of these therapy groups/ministries, such as Truth Won Out, you’ll see frequent disclaimer that ‘SSA’ almost never truly goes away. I’ve been told as much by many ‘formerly’ gay Christians as well, who define ‘no longer being gay’ as ‘not having homosexual sex’. Like I said, that’s not someone changing their orientation, it’s them supressing it.

As for the difficulty of the struggle, please understand. My starting point for this discussion is that G-d says, “No.” From that point, I can only seek to understand how He can say something that seems counterintuitive. I am very open to explaining/discussing how I get to that starting point, but I start here from it’s wrong. Now, let’s talking about which therapies do/don’t work. Are there success stories? Are there some paradigm shifts that we need as individuals and society in order to get there? I say yes.

But ask yourself, what is likely to be more hamrful; struggling against something that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to change, or accepting that part of yourself and coming to terms with it? (and yes, I’ve looked into the claims fo reparative therapy and counselling, and it almost never pans out; what anti-gay priests and churches refer to as ‘healing’ is better described as ‘voluntary supression’.)

It’s not a question of being religious (for that term is about as broad as a word can get). It’s a question of believing that there are rules from G-d, whether Biblically based or intuited.

There are Bible believers who interpret the Bible in two opposite ways. There are people who intuit morality in two opposite ways. Your comment about being “held down by those kinds of beliefs” would be insulting if we skin were thinner.

Two points. 1) There are many things which become “non-issues” if you are not “held down by those kinds of beliefs” including sex with your horse or mother (consensual of course). 2) One of my main points is that the public discourse has been so deeply swayed by liberal thought (an oxymoron perhaps) that us ol’ fashioned folks have had to forget about joining in the discussion. I have seen too many people that I care about be swayed by this approach only to find themselves suffering immensely later in life. It is painted as the answer. “Accept yourself.” All problems do not get solved by this. It’s only a band aid, and it comes back to haunt many people.

The main point of contention is whether the ’struggle’ is worth having. As far as I can see, the only way you could believe that it is is if you’re religious. For everyone not held down by those kinds of beliefs, it’s a non-issue.

However . . . I do not believe that every feeling makes a person inevitably boxed into a corner forever. I have feelings that I need to struggle with. This is an ongoing process.

My point in this post is that by calling yourself gay, you may be too quick to give up on a struggle that is worth having.

The basis of your comment is something that I should write a post on. Thank you!